I Had an Emotional Affair

How "innocent" chats and e-mails nearly destroyed my marriage By David Bauer "Here." With tears streaming down her face, Dawn,* my wife of five years, stormed into my office at work and tossed a list on my desk. "I need you to stop at the grocery store on your way home. I have to pick up the kids." "What's wrong?" I approached her, but she waved me away. "You never talk to me, and you expect me to tell you what's wrong? Forget it!" "Dawn, please. Sit down and tell me why you're so upset." "Not here. Later." She left before I could argue further. I didn't try to stop her. Dawn knew. Somehow she'd discovered the secret I'd concealed for months. I'd fallen in love with another woman. Dawn and I had been high school sweethearts. I couldn't wait to marry her. But our marriage soon began to unravel. Close ties to her family, who lived nearby, constantly interfered with our time as a couple. Dawn didn't see the need to separate from her parents and put me first. She ran to them when we had a disagreement. If we went out for dinner and a movie, she invited them along. Over time, I began to feel like a child waiting to join a kickball team, raising my hand and shouting, "Pick me! Pick me!" Jealousy grew, poisoning our marriage. In a heated argument one night, I demanded, "If I asked you to choose between me and your parents, whom would you choose?" Without speaking she answered my question. Four years into our marriage, Dawn and I had drifted apart. I'd grown weary of being rejected, emotionally and sexually. Her excuses for refusing my sexual advances ranged from fatigue to lack of interest. One night in bed, I massaged her back and legs, knowing it was a turn on to her. She responded with a perfunctory kiss on the lips. "Not tonight, David. Maybe tomorrow." She rolled over and went to sleep, leaving me dejected and hurt. Before long we were having sex only once every couple months. I envied my married friends who described frequent, healthy sexual relationships. As my resentment grew, I began to wonder what I'd ever loved about Dawn. A change of scene Needing a change, I enrolled in a local community college. I met Stephanie my first semester. We attended several classes together. I learned her father worked for the same company I did, and Stephanie and I both had a child the same age. She was stuck in an unsatisfying relationship with her live-in boyfriend; I was disillusioned in my marriage. We connected instantly, sharing long conversations over lunch, in-between classes, and sometimes even during class. Second semester, Stephanie and I didn't have any classes together. Deprived of the opportunity to see and talk with each other, we started to chat over the Internet. I also created a new e-mail account strictly for our correspondence. Our instant messaging began as a way to communicate during class, similar to the way I'd passed notes as a kid. But the sessions grew more frequent, and soon I was chatting while at my job and late at night while doing homework. Our physical separation provided a false sense of security when our conversations and e-mails turned gradually more flirtatious. Stephanie stood out from other women I knew. She was free spirited-intelligent, funny, and carefree. But most important, she was attentive and non-judgmental. As our friendship grew, so did my romantic feelings. Inside, though, I was conflicted. Though I knew I was breaking my vows, I felt Dawn's rejection justified my feelings for Stephanie. I often cried out to God through journaling and poetry. I knew he'd forgive me if I repented. But at the same time, I blamed God for allowing my marriage to fall apart. And frankly, I wasn't ready to repent. The great divide Sensing the growing chasm between us, Dawn sought ways to spend more time together, clearing her calendar of events planned weeks in advance. She made certain we ate supper together and cooked my favorite foods. I stubbornly resisted her efforts. "How was your day?" she'd ask when I came home from work. "Fine," I'd reply, then ignore her. Although I knew I should work on my marriage, I was still angry about Dawn's loyalty to her parents and her sexual rejection of me. I wanted to hurt her as badly as she'd hurt me. Months earlier I'd planned a romantic, 5th-anniversary trip to Cancun. As my relationship with Stephanie intensified, so did my desire to get out of the trip. One week before we were to leave, Dawn and I had a heated argument. "We may as well cancel our trip to Cancun," I said. "I don't want to waste the time or money when all we do is fight." Shocked, Dawn began to sob. I cancelled our reservations the next day. Four weeks passed. One day at work an instant message from Stephanie popped onto my screen. "I need to tell you something, but I don't know how." Replying back, I urged, "You can share anything with me." "It's really personal and I don't want to look foolish." "Okay," I said, "if it makes you feel better, send me an e-mail." Sure she was going to confide her feelings toward me, I logged onto my e-mail account. I read her message, savoring every word. "The last several weeks have been great," she wrote. "I know you're married, which makes this a lot harder." My heart pounded in my chest as I read on. "I've realized I have feelings for you. I often imagine what it would be like to kiss you." Elated, I replied back, "Me too." For the first time in months, I felt needed and wanted. I looked forward with anticipation to kissing Stephanie. A few weeks later, at a remote picnic spot, we shared our first kiss. My heart said I'd found paradise; my head screamed, What are you doing? Although we never progressed past kissing, each time we kissed the pull to go further strengthened. As I continued to withdraw from Dawn, she became angry. "You touch that laptop more than you touch me," she complained. "Welcome to my world," I muttered, remembering her sexual rejections. "David, I've tried. Won't you ever forgive me?" "You've pushed me away for years. It's too late to fix things." I thought about Stephanie, how she gave me the attention I craved. She soothed my wounded ego with compliments and love notes, filling a void in my heart. I began to believe she was my soul mate. I was in love. Walking a tightrope Late one night I was instant messaging Stephanie, when Dawn sat up in bed. "What are you working on?" "Homework," I replied. A message from Stephanie popped up, and I quickly minimized it. "What was that?" Dawn asked. Adrenaline rushed through my body. "An Internet advertisement." I knew my sneaking around was wrong. I buried myself in work and school, no longer wanting to be home. Fearing my relationship with Stephanie would be discovered, I limited my contact with family and church friends. I knew I should end things between us, but I wasn't strong enough. Six weeks had passed since Stephanie and I admitted our feelings for each other. One night after skipping class to be with her, I returned home to receive a call from Alex, a family friend. He asked if I'd meet with him. "I've seen changes in you," Alex told me when we got together. "Your priorities have shifted. You're investing far more time in school and your friends there than in your wife and son." He proceeded to share how, as a young husband and father of three, he'd cheated on his wife with a female college instructor. "David, I can see my past living out in you." For some reason I confessed my relationship with Stephanie, and that I was ready to leave Dawn and our son, Drew, for her. Alex listened patiently, making one request—that I allow him to arrange for Dawn and me to meet with a marriage counselor. I promised I'd think about it. Secrets revealed The next day, Dawn confronted me in my office. Alex must have told Dawn about Stephanie. I stewed as I drove home from work that night, bracing myself for the confrontation to come. How dare Alex tell Dawn! When I arrived home Dawn's face was puffy and tear-stained as she prepared supper. After an uncomfortably silent dinner, I tucked Drew into bed. Walking downstairs, I found Dawn sitting on the couch, waiting. I sat on the floor and said, "Is there anything you want to ask me?" "Who is she?" Dawn asked. "How long has this been going on?" I told her Stephanie's name and that we'd been involved for six or seven weeks. "Do you love her?" "I think so," I admitted. "I'm not sure I can end the relationship. How did you find out?" Dawn started to cry. "Alex told Mom and Dad. When I stopped by their house this afternoon, Mom was crying. They didn't want to tell me what was wrong, but I guessed." It figures, I thought angrily. Once again Dawn's parents had come between us. I felt I was on trial as I confessed everything—that I'd become emotionally involved with Stephanie through e-mails and instant messaging, and that the affair was on the verge of becoming sexual. I hoped Dawn would give up on us. Since I didn't have the courage to end our marriage, I wanted her to do it. When I revealed that Stephanie's mother attended the same woman's group as Dawn, her control snapped. "What?" she yelled. "It's her?" Eyes flashing with anger, she ran to the basement. Grabbing a plastic baseball bat, she beat it against the stacks of Rubbermaid containers and cardboard boxes. "You're nothing but a liar!" she wailed loud enough for me to hear her upstairs. "How could you betray me like this?" I stood in the kitchen, torn between anger and shame. You drove me to it, I thought bitterly. You chose your parents over me, so I chose Stephanie over you. Dawn finally came upstairs, red-eyed and exhausted. "What are you going to do?" she asked. "I don't know." "I'm willing to work through this," she said. "But it's your decision. Either you end your relationship with Stephanie, or it's the end of our marriage." The next five days were the darkest I've ever experienced. My secret was out. Our family and church friends knew what I'd done. Inside me, a spiritual battle raged. I replayed the notes, the cards, the conversations, and the physical attraction that drew me to Stephanie. Though ashamed, I didn't want the fantasy to end. A few days later I received a letter from a respected friend. I wept as I read her loving admonishment. "I fear that if you turn your back on Dawn and Drew, you'll forever be haunted by deep regrets and wounds that will never heal completely. Yes, God forgives, but we must bear the 'blisters of the heart.'" I wept most of that night. Dawn stayed with me, comforting me. The next day I knew what I had to do. I e-mailed Stephanie that I'd decided to work out things with Dawn and was ending the relationship. "Please don't contact me anymore," was my final statement. Stephanie responded angrily. "I wish you'd made that decision earlier so I didn't end up hurting people I care for!" Two days later Dawn and I entered marital counseling. As we talked, I was able to make Dawn understand how deeply she'd hurt me. "I felt as if you loved your parents more than me," I confessed. "I'm so tired of feeling rejected. So I decided it was less painful if I pulled away from you." "I'm sorry I made you feel that way," she replied. "I'm completely committed to fixing our marriage, whatever the cost." As we worked to bridge the distance between us, physical love became a catalyst for our healing. "I need to be close to you," Dawn told me. "I feel as if we're becoming one again." While it took just weeks for my heart to stray, restoring our marriage took much longer. At times I questioned if staying with Dawn had been the right decision. When we fought, I'd recall the good times Stephanie and I had shared, and I was tempted to pick up the phone or e-mail her. Dawn had doubts as well. "I still don't trust you 100 percent," she confessed nearly two years later. "Sometimes when we fight I wonder if you're still sneaking around." More than five years have passed. Rather than involving her parents in our disputes, Dawn now seeks counsel from two women. They help her see when she's right, when she's wrong, and how to grow in her role as a wife. Though my job requires that I correspond with colleagues, male and female, through e-mail and instant messaging, I limit my conversations to work-related topics. If a conversation drifts to a personal tone, I end it. I also meet with six other men to share, study, and pray on Sunday mornings. As Dawn and I continue to rebuild trust, we're committed to being honest about our feelings and thoughts and with each other. * names have been changed David Bauer is a pseudonym for an author living in Minnesota. (EOPC DOES NOT AGREE with simply cutting off the 'other woman' who was truly a pawn in all this - 'David' could have taken a break from Stephanie, and worked to reframe their friendship after working on his marriage. Though some therapists say cut it off - it makes life MUCH TOO EASY for the cyberpath & traumatizes the victims (often the spouse/ partner AND the other woman). We don't agree. Considering he & Stephanie never physically consummated things - and that Stephanie was very supportive to him - it also ends what could be a decent friendship. The current advice of just 'cutting it off' is turning out to be more harm than help psychologically to victims. And far too easy for the predator. Especially for the other 'person' who is often a pawn or target. 'David' could have introduced the 2 women eventually if he wanted - and worked on his marriage while making appropriate amends to Stephanie. Stephanie got hurt and used, and now this writer is talking about how great it all was for him to save his marriage. While saving the marriage was a good thing, where does that leave the 3rd person? Something's not right.... Our 10 cents - Fighter) SOME OF OUR 'EMOTIONAL AFFAIRS' Click and scroll through all the posts to read everything on each of these: - Doug Beckstead - Dan Jacoby - Keith Clive - Brad Dorsky - gridney/ aka YidwithLid aka Sammy Benoit - Steven Langley Guy

I Had an Emotional Affair

How "innocent" chats and e-mails nearly destroyed my marriage By David Bauer "Here." With tears streaming down her face, Dawn,* my wife of five years, stormed into my office at work and tossed a list on my desk. "I need you to stop at the grocery store on your way home. I have to pick up the kids." "What's wrong?" I approached her, but she waved me away. "You never talk to me, and you expect me to tell you what's wrong? Forget it!" "Dawn, please. Sit down and tell me why you're so upset." "Not here. Later." She left before I could argue further. I didn't try to stop her. Dawn knew. Somehow she'd discovered the secret I'd concealed for months. I'd fallen in love with another woman. Dawn and I had been high school sweethearts. I couldn't wait to marry her. But our marriage soon began to unravel. Close ties to her family, who lived nearby, constantly interfered with our time as a couple. Dawn didn't see the need to separate from her parents and put me first. She ran to them when we had a disagreement. If we went out for dinner and a movie, she invited them along. Over time, I began to feel like a child waiting to join a kickball team, raising my hand and shouting, "Pick me! Pick me!" Jealousy grew, poisoning our marriage. In a heated argument one night, I demanded, "If I asked you to choose between me and your parents, whom would you choose?" Without speaking she answered my question. Four years into our marriage, Dawn and I had drifted apart. I'd grown weary of being rejected, emotionally and sexually. Her excuses for refusing my sexual advances ranged from fatigue to lack of interest. One night in bed, I massaged her back and legs, knowing it was a turn on to her. She responded with a perfunctory kiss on the lips. "Not tonight, David. Maybe tomorrow." She rolled over and went to sleep, leaving me dejected and hurt. Before long we were having sex only once every couple months. I envied my married friends who described frequent, healthy sexual relationships. As my resentment grew, I began to wonder what I'd ever loved about Dawn. A change of scene Needing a change, I enrolled in a local community college. I met Stephanie my first semester. We attended several classes together. I learned her father worked for the same company I did, and Stephanie and I both had a child the same age. She was stuck in an unsatisfying relationship with her live-in boyfriend; I was disillusioned in my marriage. We connected instantly, sharing long conversations over lunch, in-between classes, and sometimes even during class. Second semester, Stephanie and I didn't have any classes together. Deprived of the opportunity to see and talk with each other, we started to chat over the Internet. I also created a new e-mail account strictly for our correspondence. Our instant messaging began as a way to communicate during class, similar to the way I'd passed notes as a kid. But the sessions grew more frequent, and soon I was chatting while at my job and late at night while doing homework. Our physical separation provided a false sense of security when our conversations and e-mails turned gradually more flirtatious. Stephanie stood out from other women I knew. She was free spirited-intelligent, funny, and carefree. But most important, she was attentive and non-judgmental. As our friendship grew, so did my romantic feelings. Inside, though, I was conflicted. Though I knew I was breaking my vows, I felt Dawn's rejection justified my feelings for Stephanie. I often cried out to God through journaling and poetry. I knew he'd forgive me if I repented. But at the same time, I blamed God for allowing my marriage to fall apart. And frankly, I wasn't ready to repent. The great divide Sensing the growing chasm between us, Dawn sought ways to spend more time together, clearing her calendar of events planned weeks in advance. She made certain we ate supper together and cooked my favorite foods. I stubbornly resisted her efforts. "How was your day?" she'd ask when I came home from work. "Fine," I'd reply, then ignore her. Although I knew I should work on my marriage, I was still angry about Dawn's loyalty to her parents and her sexual rejection of me. I wanted to hurt her as badly as she'd hurt me. Months earlier I'd planned a romantic, 5th-anniversary trip to Cancun. As my relationship with Stephanie intensified, so did my desire to get out of the trip. One week before we were to leave, Dawn and I had a heated argument. "We may as well cancel our trip to Cancun," I said. "I don't want to waste the time or money when all we do is fight." Shocked, Dawn began to sob. I cancelled our reservations the next day. Four weeks passed. One day at work an instant message from Stephanie popped onto my screen. "I need to tell you something, but I don't know how." Replying back, I urged, "You can share anything with me." "It's really personal and I don't want to look foolish." "Okay," I said, "if it makes you feel better, send me an e-mail." Sure she was going to confide her feelings toward me, I logged onto my e-mail account. I read her message, savoring every word. "The last several weeks have been great," she wrote. "I know you're married, which makes this a lot harder." My heart pounded in my chest as I read on. "I've realized I have feelings for you. I often imagine what it would be like to kiss you." Elated, I replied back, "Me too." For the first time in months, I felt needed and wanted. I looked forward with anticipation to kissing Stephanie. A few weeks later, at a remote picnic spot, we shared our first kiss. My heart said I'd found paradise; my head screamed, What are you doing? Although we never progressed past kissing, each time we kissed the pull to go further strengthened. As I continued to withdraw from Dawn, she became angry. "You touch that laptop more than you touch me," she complained. "Welcome to my world," I muttered, remembering her sexual rejections. "David, I've tried. Won't you ever forgive me?" "You've pushed me away for years. It's too late to fix things." I thought about Stephanie, how she gave me the attention I craved. She soothed my wounded ego with compliments and love notes, filling a void in my heart. I began to believe she was my soul mate. I was in love. Walking a tightrope Late one night I was instant messaging Stephanie, when Dawn sat up in bed. "What are you working on?" "Homework," I replied. A message from Stephanie popped up, and I quickly minimized it. "What was that?" Dawn asked. Adrenaline rushed through my body. "An Internet advertisement." I knew my sneaking around was wrong. I buried myself in work and school, no longer wanting to be home. Fearing my relationship with Stephanie would be discovered, I limited my contact with family and church friends. I knew I should end things between us, but I wasn't strong enough. Six weeks had passed since Stephanie and I admitted our feelings for each other. One night after skipping class to be with her, I returned home to receive a call from Alex, a family friend. He asked if I'd meet with him. "I've seen changes in you," Alex told me when we got together. "Your priorities have shifted. You're investing far more time in school and your friends there than in your wife and son." He proceeded to share how, as a young husband and father of three, he'd cheated on his wife with a female college instructor. "David, I can see my past living out in you." For some reason I confessed my relationship with Stephanie, and that I was ready to leave Dawn and our son, Drew, for her. Alex listened patiently, making one request—that I allow him to arrange for Dawn and me to meet with a marriage counselor. I promised I'd think about it. Secrets revealed The next day, Dawn confronted me in my office. Alex must have told Dawn about Stephanie. I stewed as I drove home from work that night, bracing myself for the confrontation to come. How dare Alex tell Dawn! When I arrived home Dawn's face was puffy and tear-stained as she prepared supper. After an uncomfortably silent dinner, I tucked Drew into bed. Walking downstairs, I found Dawn sitting on the couch, waiting. I sat on the floor and said, "Is there anything you want to ask me?" "Who is she?" Dawn asked. "How long has this been going on?" I told her Stephanie's name and that we'd been involved for six or seven weeks. "Do you love her?" "I think so," I admitted. "I'm not sure I can end the relationship. How did you find out?" Dawn started to cry. "Alex told Mom and Dad. When I stopped by their house this afternoon, Mom was crying. They didn't want to tell me what was wrong, but I guessed." It figures, I thought angrily. Once again Dawn's parents had come between us. I felt I was on trial as I confessed everything—that I'd become emotionally involved with Stephanie through e-mails and instant messaging, and that the affair was on the verge of becoming sexual. I hoped Dawn would give up on us. Since I didn't have the courage to end our marriage, I wanted her to do it. When I revealed that Stephanie's mother attended the same woman's group as Dawn, her control snapped. "What?" she yelled. "It's her?" Eyes flashing with anger, she ran to the basement. Grabbing a plastic baseball bat, she beat it against the stacks of Rubbermaid containers and cardboard boxes. "You're nothing but a liar!" she wailed loud enough for me to hear her upstairs. "How could you betray me like this?" I stood in the kitchen, torn between anger and shame. You drove me to it, I thought bitterly. You chose your parents over me, so I chose Stephanie over you. Dawn finally came upstairs, red-eyed and exhausted. "What are you going to do?" she asked. "I don't know." "I'm willing to work through this," she said. "But it's your decision. Either you end your relationship with Stephanie, or it's the end of our marriage." The next five days were the darkest I've ever experienced. My secret was out. Our family and church friends knew what I'd done. Inside me, a spiritual battle raged. I replayed the notes, the cards, the conversations, and the physical attraction that drew me to Stephanie. Though ashamed, I didn't want the fantasy to end. A few days later I received a letter from a respected friend. I wept as I read her loving admonishment. "I fear that if you turn your back on Dawn and Drew, you'll forever be haunted by deep regrets and wounds that will never heal completely. Yes, God forgives, but we must bear the 'blisters of the heart.'" I wept most of that night. Dawn stayed with me, comforting me. The next day I knew what I had to do. I e-mailed Stephanie that I'd decided to work out things with Dawn and was ending the relationship. "Please don't contact me anymore," was my final statement. Stephanie responded angrily. "I wish you'd made that decision earlier so I didn't end up hurting people I care for!" Two days later Dawn and I entered marital counseling. As we talked, I was able to make Dawn understand how deeply she'd hurt me. "I felt as if you loved your parents more than me," I confessed. "I'm so tired of feeling rejected. So I decided it was less painful if I pulled away from you." "I'm sorry I made you feel that way," she replied. "I'm completely committed to fixing our marriage, whatever the cost." As we worked to bridge the distance between us, physical love became a catalyst for our healing. "I need to be close to you," Dawn told me. "I feel as if we're becoming one again." While it took just weeks for my heart to stray, restoring our marriage took much longer. At times I questioned if staying with Dawn had been the right decision. When we fought, I'd recall the good times Stephanie and I had shared, and I was tempted to pick up the phone or e-mail her. Dawn had doubts as well. "I still don't trust you 100 percent," she confessed nearly two years later. "Sometimes when we fight I wonder if you're still sneaking around." More than five years have passed. Rather than involving her parents in our disputes, Dawn now seeks counsel from two women. They help her see when she's right, when she's wrong, and how to grow in her role as a wife. Though my job requires that I correspond with colleagues, male and female, through e-mail and instant messaging, I limit my conversations to work-related topics. If a conversation drifts to a personal tone, I end it. I also meet with six other men to share, study, and pray on Sunday mornings. As Dawn and I continue to rebuild trust, we're committed to being honest about our feelings and thoughts and with each other. * names have been changed David Bauer is a pseudonym for an author living in Minnesota. (EOPC DOES NOT AGREE with simply cutting off the 'other woman' who was truly a pawn in all this - 'David' could have taken a break from Stephanie, and worked to reframe their friendship after working on his marriage. Though some therapists say cut it off - it makes life MUCH TOO EASY for the cyberpath & traumatizes the victims (often the spouse/ partner AND the other woman). We don't agree. Considering he & Stephanie never physically consummated things - and that Stephanie was very supportive to him - it also ends what could be a decent friendship. The current advice of just 'cutting it off' is turning out to be more harm than help psychologically to victims. And far too easy for the predator. Especially for the other 'person' who is often a pawn or target. 'David' could have introduced the 2 women eventually if he wanted - and worked on his marriage while making appropriate amends to Stephanie. Stephanie got hurt and used, and now this writer is talking about how great it all was for him to save his marriage. While saving the marriage was a good thing, where does that leave the 3rd person? Something's not right.... Our 10 cents - Fighter) SOME OF OUR 'EMOTIONAL AFFAIRS' Click and scroll through all the posts to read everything on each of these: - Doug Beckstead - Dan Jacoby - Keith Clive - Brad Dorsky - gridney/ aka YidwithLid aka Sammy Benoit - Steven Langley Guy

AOL Chat Friend Pleads 'Not Guilty' to Murder

Prosecutors say a man suspected of ambushing and stabbing a woman he met online has been charged with second-degree murder in her death.

Raymond Dennis pleaded not guilty on Friday and is being held. His next court date is May 19. Police say 23-year-old Nimzay Aponte was stabbed to death at a Bronx park Tuesday as she sat with a friend.

Police say she told police before she died that "Mike" did it, referring to a person she met on AOL's instant messaging service and through a site called Local Hookups. Police say investigators tracked Dennis down, who went by that name on the service. Police say the two met once in person, but she didn't want a relationship.

Aponte's 25-year-old male companion was also stabbed in the arm. Dennis also pleaded not guilty to assault in that stabbing.

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

AOL Chat Friend Pleads 'Not Guilty' to Murder

Prosecutors say a man suspected of ambushing and stabbing a woman he met online has been charged with second-degree murder in her death.

Raymond Dennis pleaded not guilty on Friday and is being held. His next court date is May 19. Police say 23-year-old Nimzay Aponte was stabbed to death at a Bronx park Tuesday as she sat with a friend.

Police say she told police before she died that "Mike" did it, referring to a person she met on AOL's instant messaging service and through a site called Local Hookups. Police say investigators tracked Dennis down, who went by that name on the service. Police say the two met once in person, but she didn't want a relationship.

Aponte's 25-year-old male companion was also stabbed in the arm. Dennis also pleaded not guilty to assault in that stabbing.

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

Husband Seeks Divorce Over Online Affair

(February, 1996) BRIDGEWATER, New Jersey (AP) -- A man filing for divorce accused his wife of carrying on a "virtual" affair via computer with a cybersex partner who called himself "The Weasel."

Diane Goydan's relationship with the man apparently never was consummated, but her husband, John Goydan of Bridgewater, claimed the pair had planned a real tryst this weekend at a New Hampshire bed and breakfast.

Goydan filed divorce papers January 23 that included dozens of e-mail exchanges -- some sexually explicit -- between his wife and a married man she met on America Online. The man, whose on-line name was The Weasel, was identified in court papers only as Ray from North Carolina.

In a November 23 message, The Weasel wrote: "I gotta tell you that I am one happy guy now and so much at peace again anticipating us. I love you dearly. XXOOXX."

Goydan is now seeking custody of the couple's two children, ages 3 and 7.

Goydan's lawyer, Richard Hurley, said Mrs. Goydan apparently believed the e-mail messages could not be retrieved, but her husband was able to pull them off the computer and store them on a disk.

That raises some privacy concerns, such as what rights spouses have to each other's communications, said David Banisar, spokesman for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington.

"If it's a shared computer, then the spouse has equal rights to get on it and share what's on it," Banisar said. But if the husband gained access to her e-mail on line, that could violate her privacy rights, similar to a husband tapping his wife's telephone. "It's still pretty undefined in the law," Banisar said.

The divorce papers do not say exactly how Goydan retrieved the messages. Goydan began saving his wife's e-mail every day after surprising her as she was printing out something on the computer when he came home from work early. When Goydan later switched on the computer, it told him there was something waiting to be printed, and he discovered a message to his wife from The Weasel.

The lawsuit claims Mrs. Goydan promised that day to end [Internet Affair] the relationship but later that night sent The Weasel a message that they had been caught. Weeks later, she messaged: "I just have to learn to be more careful. ... I want so badly to be with you that I am willing to chance it."

Reached by telephone at home, Mrs. Goydan said, "You're kidding me" and hung up.

ORIGINAL ARTICLE HERE

Husband Seeks Divorce Over Online Affair

(February, 1996) BRIDGEWATER, New Jersey (AP) -- A man filing for divorce accused his wife of carrying on a "virtual" affair via computer with a cybersex partner who called himself "The Weasel."

Diane Goydan's relationship with the man apparently never was consummated, but her husband, John Goydan of Bridgewater, claimed the pair had planned a real tryst this weekend at a New Hampshire bed and breakfast.

Goydan filed divorce papers January 23 that included dozens of e-mail exchanges -- some sexually explicit -- between his wife and a married man she met on America Online. The man, whose on-line name was The Weasel, was identified in court papers only as Ray from North Carolina.

In a November 23 message, The Weasel wrote: "I gotta tell you that I am one happy guy now and so much at peace again anticipating us. I love you dearly. XXOOXX."

Goydan is now seeking custody of the couple's two children, ages 3 and 7.

Goydan's lawyer, Richard Hurley, said Mrs. Goydan apparently believed the e-mail messages could not be retrieved, but her husband was able to pull them off the computer and store them on a disk.

That raises some privacy concerns, such as what rights spouses have to each other's communications, said David Banisar, spokesman for the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington.

"If it's a shared computer, then the spouse has equal rights to get on it and share what's on it," Banisar said. But if the husband gained access to her e-mail on line, that could violate her privacy rights, similar to a husband tapping his wife's telephone. "It's still pretty undefined in the law," Banisar said.

The divorce papers do not say exactly how Goydan retrieved the messages. Goydan began saving his wife's e-mail every day after surprising her as she was printing out something on the computer when he came home from work early. When Goydan later switched on the computer, it told him there was something waiting to be printed, and he discovered a message to his wife from The Weasel.

The lawsuit claims Mrs. Goydan promised that day to end [Internet Affair] the relationship but later that night sent The Weasel a message that they had been caught. Weeks later, she messaged: "I just have to learn to be more careful. ... I want so badly to be with you that I am willing to chance it."

Reached by telephone at home, Mrs. Goydan said, "You're kidding me" and hung up.

ORIGINAL ARTICLE HERE

HOW TO GET LAID ON THE INTERNET

WARNING: ADULT CONTENT IN THIS POST!!

(found this piece on a longer site that 'teaches' you how to pick up women on the internet. This portion basically tells you to do Adult Chat so you get better at cybersex then move up to Phone Sex for practice! Of course, tell the INNOCENT TARGET you finally find you have "never done this before" and its them that is "making you so aroused." Yeah right... Be informed. And realize with just a few changes here, a female cyberpath could do the same to her targets too. Cyberpaths TRAIN for what they do to people online! And the anonimity they practice with trains them to think of their victims as OBJECTS. This should give some insight into the online sexual cyberpath:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Using Adult Chat for Training

"To understand women sexually you need to understand how women think. To understand how women think you need to interact with them. And where do you go to do that? I think a good place is the adult chat rooms. Adult Chat gives you a way to interact with women in a totally anonymous way without many of the complications of meeting in person. And - you'll find that when women are annonymous that they are a lot more open sexually than they are if you know who they are.

"Anonymous chat gives you the opportunity to reinvent yourself. No longer do age, weight, looks, hight, money, race, or planet of origin make a difference. You can be anyone, anything - no limits. It's a world of fantasy and you are whoever you choose to be - interacting with women being who they choose to be. You can be a space alien if you wan. In fact - space aliens are very popular with women. You would be amazed by then number of women who get hot about the idea of being gang raped by space aliens. And with space aliens - there's no limit to what kind of appendages they have or what they can do with them.

"In adult chat rooms you can find someone and then do one on one chat. Usually the title of the room sets the mood for what you are looking for. And - you might create multiple profiles depending on what room you want to go into. This is where you can have cybersex where you and her exchange mutual sexual thoughts and masturbate.

"You may be thinking - "I'm not interested in cyber sex - I want the real thing." And - I understand that. But, cyber is something you should consider for several reasons. It may not be as good as real - but it's better than just masturbating. It also eliminates the need to be physically local allowing you to interact with women all over the world. It eliminates a lot of complications relating to being physically attracted to each other. In fact - often it is better not to exchange pictures because the imagination is often hotter than the reality of what you both look like. If it's cyber - what does it matter what the other person looks like?

"But - the most important think you get from cyber is that you are interacting with a real woman (or a gay guy pretending to be a woman - watch out for that). And you are interacting with an uninhibited woman who is uninhibited by virtue of being anonymous. A woman will get hotter and nastier a lot faster if she knows that you will never find out who she is. This will give you a rare insight into the sexual mind of women. You will be able to interact with them on a very basic primitive sexual level and get to understand how the aroused female mind works. And this is the key to getting laid. What you learn about women in cyber often applies to the real world too. I think the knowledge and experience of cyber will make you a lot more likely to find real because the same things that get women hot online get women hot in real life. "

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

HOW TO GET LAID ON THE INTERNET

WARNING: ADULT CONTENT IN THIS POST!!

(found this piece on a longer site that 'teaches' you how to pick up women on the internet. This portion basically tells you to do Adult Chat so you get better at cybersex then move up to Phone Sex for practice! Of course, tell the INNOCENT TARGET you finally find you have "never done this before" and its them that is "making you so aroused." Yeah right... Be informed. And realize with just a few changes here, a female cyberpath could do the same to her targets too. Cyberpaths TRAIN for what they do to people online! And the anonimity they practice with trains them to think of their victims as OBJECTS. This should give some insight into the online sexual cyberpath:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Using Adult Chat for Training

"To understand women sexually you need to understand how women think. To understand how women think you need to interact with them. And where do you go to do that? I think a good place is the adult chat rooms. Adult Chat gives you a way to interact with women in a totally anonymous way without many of the complications of meeting in person. And - you'll find that when women are annonymous that they are a lot more open sexually than they are if you know who they are.

"Anonymous chat gives you the opportunity to reinvent yourself. No longer do age, weight, looks, hight, money, race, or planet of origin make a difference. You can be anyone, anything - no limits. It's a world of fantasy and you are whoever you choose to be - interacting with women being who they choose to be. You can be a space alien if you wan. In fact - space aliens are very popular with women. You would be amazed by then number of women who get hot about the idea of being gang raped by space aliens. And with space aliens - there's no limit to what kind of appendages they have or what they can do with them.

"In adult chat rooms you can find someone and then do one on one chat. Usually the title of the room sets the mood for what you are looking for. And - you might create multiple profiles depending on what room you want to go into. This is where you can have cybersex where you and her exchange mutual sexual thoughts and masturbate.

"You may be thinking - "I'm not interested in cyber sex - I want the real thing." And - I understand that. But, cyber is something you should consider for several reasons. It may not be as good as real - but it's better than just masturbating. It also eliminates the need to be physically local allowing you to interact with women all over the world. It eliminates a lot of complications relating to being physically attracted to each other. In fact - often it is better not to exchange pictures because the imagination is often hotter than the reality of what you both look like. If it's cyber - what does it matter what the other person looks like?

"But - the most important think you get from cyber is that you are interacting with a real woman (or a gay guy pretending to be a woman - watch out for that). And you are interacting with an uninhibited woman who is uninhibited by virtue of being anonymous. A woman will get hotter and nastier a lot faster if she knows that you will never find out who she is. This will give you a rare insight into the sexual mind of women. You will be able to interact with them on a very basic primitive sexual level and get to understand how the aroused female mind works. And this is the key to getting laid. What you learn about women in cyber often applies to the real world too. I think the knowledge and experience of cyber will make you a lot more likely to find real because the same things that get women hot online get women hot in real life. "

ORIGINAL ARTICLE

JANUARY 2008 PREDATOR OF THE MONTH: JOHN GASH

JANUARY 2008 PREDATOR OF THE MONTH:
JOHN GASH

We are starting the year out with a classic tale of cyberpathy. John Gash chatted up women out of town & out of the country from his computer and then traveled to meet and sleep with these women.

Of course he made professions of love and so on... without telling anyone he was married or had more than one woman on his hook.

His victim's story:

My story started in 1999 and lasted 3 years until October 2002 at which time I had discovered his affair with a work colleague, that he is married and that he had, for the whole of our "so called" relationship been communicating with and possibly meeting, other women online.

He is STILL targetting women online. Meanwhile, 5 years later I am still picking up the pieces and coming to terms with the devastation he caused me. This man almost destroyed me and for 2 years I was simply unable to function, work or practise my career. (because of predator mind control & brainwashing. CLICK HERE and HERE for more information on that. Our victims commonly tell us they were unable to function, distracted, sleepless, couldn't focus or think straight or felt like there was a 'wet blanket' on their head)

John is a smooth operator in real life. He was Director of Programs for a well-known aircraft manufacturer for 40 years and has done very well in his career. At face value he seems to be a smart and successful businessman living in San Jose, CA. In reality he is a liar, cheat and predatory con man.

ONLINE NICKNAMES

• Jdgash99
• cooljohn99
• wheelies03
• wheelies06
• ufo_flying_the_sky
• stanford2426.

These are all in Yahoo chats & groups

I also found a bunch of ICQ numbers for him but unfortunately have now deleted them.

He hangs in 50's/60's chat and romance rooms in Yahoo and plays bridge on Yahoo and MSN.

I have sufficient evidence here to put before any Court in the event he would want to sue and like Miss Lewinsky I even have his DNA as he left his hairbrush here so the possibility of court action really doesn't phase me at all.

When I discovered what he had done to me and challenged him he refused to talk to me or discuss it. He changed his home phone number, emailed me to say that if I ever came to California NOT to visit him or he would have me arrested!!! This from the man who for three years had been a part of my life and professed to love me. (very typical - they become ENRAGED when you catch them. )

It's time he was exposed for who he really is and what he does online.

Well SAID!

We will be posting chats Gash had with one of his victims throughout the month.

And as always, if Mr. Gash wishes to contact us for a referral to long term counseling for his predatory exploitation of innocent women and/or for his obvious sex and love addiction, he can do so at our email address at the right.

John Gash, here's your PREDATOR award:

JANUARY 2008 PREDATOR OF THE MONTH: JOHN GASH

JANUARY 2008 PREDATOR OF THE MONTH:
JOHN GASH

We are starting the year out with a classic tale of cyberpathy. John Gash chatted up women out of town & out of the country from his computer and then traveled to meet and sleep with these women.

Of course he made professions of love and so on... without telling anyone he was married or had more than one woman on his hook.

His victim's story:

My story started in 1999 and lasted 3 years until October 2002 at which time I had discovered his affair with a work colleague, that he is married and that he had, for the whole of our "so called" relationship been communicating with and possibly meeting, other women online.

He is STILL targetting women online. Meanwhile, 5 years later I am still picking up the pieces and coming to terms with the devastation he caused me. This man almost destroyed me and for 2 years I was simply unable to function, work or practise my career. (because of predator mind control & brainwashing. CLICK HERE and HERE for more information on that. Our victims commonly tell us they were unable to function, distracted, sleepless, couldn't focus or think straight or felt like there was a 'wet blanket' on their head)

John is a smooth operator in real life. He was Director of Programs for a well-known aircraft manufacturer for 40 years and has done very well in his career. At face value he seems to be a smart and successful businessman living in San Jose, CA. In reality he is a liar, cheat and predatory con man.

ONLINE NICKNAMES

• Jdgash99
• cooljohn99
• wheelies03
• wheelies06
• ufo_flying_the_sky
• stanford2426.

These are all in Yahoo chats & groups

I also found a bunch of ICQ numbers for him but unfortunately have now deleted them.

He hangs in 50's/60's chat and romance rooms in Yahoo and plays bridge on Yahoo and MSN.

I have sufficient evidence here to put before any Court in the event he would want to sue and like Miss Lewinsky I even have his DNA as he left his hairbrush here so the possibility of court action really doesn't phase me at all.

When I discovered what he had done to me and challenged him he refused to talk to me or discuss it. He changed his home phone number, emailed me to say that if I ever came to California NOT to visit him or he would have me arrested!!! This from the man who for three years had been a part of my life and professed to love me. (very typical - they become ENRAGED when you catch them. )

It's time he was exposed for who he really is and what he does online.

Well SAID!

We will be posting chats Gash had with one of his victims throughout the month.

And as always, if Mr. Gash wishes to contact us for a referral to long term counseling for his predatory exploitation of innocent women and/or for his obvious sex and love addiction, he can do so at our email address at the right.

John Gash, here's your PREDATOR award:

COUPLE TO DIVORCE AFTER "ONLINE AFFAIR"

A Bosnian couple are getting divorced after finding out they had been secretly chatting each other up online under fake names.

Sana Klaric, 27, and husband Adnan, 32, from Zenica, poured out their hearts to each other over their marriage troubles, and both felt they had found their real soul mate.

The couple met on an online chat forum while he was at work and she in an internet cafe, and started chatting under the names Sweetie and Prince of Joy.

They eventually decided to meet up - but there was no happy ending when they realised what had happened.

Now they are both filing for divorce - with each accusing the other of being unfaithful.

Sana said: "I thought I had found the love of my life. The way this Prince of Joy spoke to me, the things he wrote, the tenderness in every expression was something I had never had in my marriage.

"It was amazing, we seemed to be stuck in the same kind of miserable marriages - and how right that turned out to be.

"We arranged to meet outside a shop and both of us would be carrying a single rose so we would know the other.

"When I saw my husband there with the rose and it dawned on me what had happened I was shattered. I felt so betrayed. I was so angry."

Adnan said: "I was so happy to have found a woman who finally understood me. Then it turned out that I hadn't found anyone new at all.

"To be honest I still find it hard to believe that the person, Sweetie, who wrote such wonderful things to me on the internet, is actually the same woman I married and who has not said a nice word to me for years."

SOURCE

COUPLE TO DIVORCE AFTER "ONLINE AFFAIR"

A Bosnian couple are getting divorced after finding out they had been secretly chatting each other up online under fake names.

Sana Klaric, 27, and husband Adnan, 32, from Zenica, poured out their hearts to each other over their marriage troubles, and both felt they had found their real soul mate.

The couple met on an online chat forum while he was at work and she in an internet cafe, and started chatting under the names Sweetie and Prince of Joy.

They eventually decided to meet up - but there was no happy ending when they realised what had happened.

Now they are both filing for divorce - with each accusing the other of being unfaithful.

Sana said: "I thought I had found the love of my life. The way this Prince of Joy spoke to me, the things he wrote, the tenderness in every expression was something I had never had in my marriage.

"It was amazing, we seemed to be stuck in the same kind of miserable marriages - and how right that turned out to be.

"We arranged to meet outside a shop and both of us would be carrying a single rose so we would know the other.

"When I saw my husband there with the rose and it dawned on me what had happened I was shattered. I felt so betrayed. I was so angry."

Adnan said: "I was so happy to have found a woman who finally understood me. Then it turned out that I hadn't found anyone new at all.

"To be honest I still find it hard to believe that the person, Sweetie, who wrote such wonderful things to me on the internet, is actually the same woman I married and who has not said a nice word to me for years."

SOURCE

Dunetz/ YidwithLid: Open Mouth - Insert Keyboard!

Original posting of this Expose: February 2005



When caught by Targets #1 and #2 - as we said before Dunetz/ YidwithLid - like most cyberpaths - tried to SMOOTH it out. How? by lying, trying to bend time and rewriting history!



Online predators hope you haven't talked to anyone (or they make sure no one speaks to you by smearing you) or kept track - so that the cognitive dissonance they have planted in your brain can be reworked to make THEM the victim of circumstances.



Unfortunately Dunetz/ YidwithLid underestimated his Targets. And still does.



In this conversation he appealed to Target #1s dearest friend - whom they both knew. We will refer to this third woman as Friend of Target #1 or 'FOT1.' Target #1 had told FOT1 about her online relationship with Dunetz/ YidwithLid in the 2 years previous (btw, Yidwithlid tried to get this friend of Target #1s to play online sex games with him TOO! That makes THREE (3) of her friends he tried to prey on)



Target #1 - I had to tell someone. It was chewing me up inside.



FOT1 asked me to introduce them and I did. She wanted to see how sincere he was - since like a true friend, she is very protective of me - but gridney/ YidwithLid fooled her too.... until we also caught him in his lies.



FOT1 also told us that Dunetz/ YidwithLid tried to have cybersex with her a couple times but she shut him down. He also accused FOT1 & Target #1 of "sexually taunting him" online. It was the other way around, of course.

Find out a narcissist's depiction of you. You get hints of the picture they have of you in what they say and how they treat and react to you. Be prepared for a stupefying shock. Find out how the narcissist depicts you to others. I guarantee that you won't recognize yourself. The narcissist's depiction of you bears no resemblance to reality.



He just makes it up according to his whim and fancy as he goes along. And, being the author of this work of fiction, he can change it overnight. Which explains why you often see a narcissist's opinion of someone go upside-down overnight. That's what an editor's pen can do to a work of fiction.



Narcissists' cavalier attitude in doing this is breathtaking.



Callous is what callous does.



ORIGINAL

Dunetz/ YidwithLid (like all cyberpaths) tries to rewrite history and tell absolute stone cold lies to FOT1 to try to discredit Target #1 some more, not realizing Target #1 already told FOT1 everything; and even introduced FOT1 online to Target #2 hours before.



FOT1 plays dumb to see what Yidwithlid will try to tell her (get out your hipboots - the 'poor me' doo-doo gets pretty deep here)



Watch as Dunetz/ YidwithLid, like a typical predator - starts playing around with the parsing he will probably practice over & over until he comes to a consensus as to what to tell to his wife and friends about all these poor Victims for years to come!! (our comments in DARK BLUE):

FOT1: hey gridney/ YidwithLid



gridney/ YidwithLid: I am an ass



FOT1: well, ok



FOT1: what makes you say that???



gridney/ YidwithLid: Its a long story



FOT1: do tell



gridney/ YidwithLid: ok



gridney/ YidwithLid: I met someone online that I really care about



gridney/ YidwithLid: it happened after that nite

(LIE. According to chats we reviewed gridney/ YidwithLid started LOVE BOMBING Target #2 in mid- January 2004.'



The night' gridney/ YidwithLid got so upset [see below] and told Target #1 she was 'just about sex and always had been' was February 20, 2004 according to the chat logs.



So -- he was already involved with Targets #1 AND #2 at the same time. No separation. In fact, LARGE overlap! THIS IS WHY ITS SO IMPORTANT TO SAVE CHATS WHEN SOMETHING'S GOING ON and TELL SOMEONE so they can validate what is going on!!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: well you know when I got upset that night

(one night Target #1 and FOT1 and gridney/ YidwithLid were online chatting - the three of them got to joking around about sex and gridney/ YidwithLid got so 'upset' he left.



In reality -- he left to go have cybersex with Target #2.



When Target #1 asked him what was wrong - he BLAMED her & FOT1 for 'torturing him.' Dunetz/ YidwithLid even went so far as to tell Target #2 that FOT1 & Target#1 purposely TOYED with him - in order to further win Target #2s sympathy and turn her against Target #1... for cyberpath insurance)



FOT1: right



FOT1: hey



FOT1: remind me again why you got upset? I was never really clear on that



gridney/ YidwithLid: because honestly I felt that I was being toyed with.

(LIE - he just couldn't do sex chat with 2 different windows open at once)



gridney/ YidwithLid: anyway..Target #1 and I stayed online that night



gridney/ YidwithLid: very late

(FOT1 KNOWS that gridney/ YidwithLid only spoke to Target #1 briefly and gridney/ YidwithLid said the following (paraphrased & confirmed): " The truth is the reason I will never sleep with you is that for me it would be JUST about sex and it would mess you up too much!" after which gridney/ YidwithLid coldly blocked Target #1.



The whole chat between gridney/ YidwithLid and Target #1 lasted about 15 minutes not 'till 3am' as gridney/ YidwithLid tried to say. FOT1 confirmed that she knew it too because Target #1 and FOT1 talked together until LATE THAT EVENING about gridney/ YidwithLid's bizarre behavior towards them online! So he's blatantly lying trying to play martyr.



gridney/ YidwithLid had just blown off Target #1 with a malicious comment and no real talk or explanation... of course the comment was finally an honest one - it was ALWAYS JUST ABOUT SEX WITH HER! Target #1 was stunned and sick. Remember she'd been defending him and taking abuse because of him!



[Note here readers: According to chat records - 2 days after gridney/ YidwithLid's outburst of honesty when he told Target #1 it was 'just about sex' for him - he PROFUSELY apologized, said he'd 'forgotten to take his antidepressants' and 'didn't know what came over' him - in order to reel Target #1 back in.



In the SAME chat he said he was going away on business for a week and would be BUSY. Target #1 said he was online quite a bit that week and didn't even have the decency to block her so Target #1 saw him online much of the time he was away.



Target #2 confirmed he was having non-stop cybersex while out of town, with her.



So gridney/ YidwithLid was 'working.' Guess who he was WORKING on and cybersex-bombing that whole week? Yes... Target #2!]



Target #1 had been devalued and was going to be drop kicked ASAP. Yes, even the "friendship" with Dunetz/ YidwithLid she held so dear was going to get disposed of because gridney/ YidwithLid was BORED with her and didn't feel like dealing with the abusive ex-husband in the picture. Despite the fact gridney/ YidwithLid started the relationship and the abuse was BECAUSE of Dunetz/ YidwithLid.



gridney/ YidwithLid who professed to be so caring - could have cared less!)





FOT1: well you should have said something to us



FOT1: we always joke around like that



gridney/ YidwithLid: I did



gridney/ YidwithLid: 'to target #1



gridney/ YidwithLid: then I went away



FOT1: right



gridney/ YidwithLid: and then when I got back I pulled away from target #1



gridney/ YidwithLid: I had to it was making me crazy

(its TARGET #1's fault he's a sex addict?)



FOT1: what was making you crazy?



gridney/ YidwithLid: tension



gridney/ YidwithLid: we both wanted to sleep with each other but knew it could never happen (BALONEY! another lie!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: we talked about it till like 3 in the morning

(complete LIE - Target #1 was so upset by gridney/ YidwithLid that evening - she & FOT1 spoke for hours the same evening. BOTH were totally mystified about why gridney/ YidwithLid got so upset! - see above.



Now they know - gridney/ YidwithLid can't manipulate too many targets AT THE SAME TIME)



gridney/ YidwithLid: anyway I started talking to someone online and we got very close

(he was already talking to her. He'd already TARGETED the next woman Target #1 unwittingly introduced to him, using Target #1s kind words about him as his calling card!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I was even making a buisness trip to go meet her

(MAKING a business trip? just to see a target and get laid... or do business? If its the former, and it was!... that's fraud. Online predators will use anything to get what they want.



REMEMBER - gridney/ YidwithLid had been unemployed and was desperately job hunting when he first started with Target #1 two years prior. Now gridney/ YidwithLid has a job and he admits he's using job resources for cybersex, phone sex and to plan an affair. Unfortunately -- his boss forgave him or looked the other way.)



gridney/ YidwithLid: Well yesterday her and Target #1 talked and now they are both so hurt



FOT1: hang on - but you practically had to be coaxed out with a handful of sugar cubes to go meet Target #1 for LUNCH! (see bottom of this post for Target #1s comments about that one lunch with gridney/ YidwithLid)



gridney/ YidwithLid: no



gridney/ YidwithLid: I was supposed to see her next week



FOT1: Yes, for the second time in 2 years



gridney/ YidwithLid: because I could deal with it now

(poor gridney/ YidwithLid huh? deal with WHAT?? notice him dangling the prospect of a 'real friendship' with Target #1 now. A promise he never had any intention of keeping. Or because he had a new target? We think the latter.)



gridney/ YidwithLid: now you know the reason I felt I couldn't



gridney/ YidwithLid: and now I have hurt her



gridney/ YidwithLid: now I have hurt Target #2



gridney/ YidwithLid: and most importantly I have lost her as a friend

(which one gridney/ YidwithLid? Online predators have no real friends - only prey. Who treats a FRIEND the way you treated Target #1!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I have been throwing up all morning (sympathy ploy)



FOT 1: DESTROYED her, gridney/ YidwithLid. The word is DESTROYED. You have no idea the amount of abuse she puts up with in your name on a daily basis for something she never even did!



gridney/ YidwithLid: thats why I was reluctent to see her to make it worse and I have anyway

(no he was a coward and playing games - notice how like a typical predator he paints himself as chivalrous & thoughtful)

gridney/ YidwithLid: I cant throw up anymore



FOT1: so don't throw up



gridney/ YidwithLid: Im so nauseous

(boo hoo... notice how gridney/ YidwithLid talks about HIMSELF now for the most part and not a word or thought as to what his targets must be thinking & feeling. Revealing himself as at least a destructive narcissist)



FOT1: so what are you going to do then?



gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont know



gridney/ YidwithLid: FOT1 -- I do love target #1 and dont want to lose her out of my life



gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont know what to do

(sympathy ploy again - looking to involve Target #1's good friend in bailing him out)



gridney/ YidwithLid: except throw up



FOT1: you love her?



gridney/ YidwithLid: yes but not in a romantic sense anymore. It started going away that night

(what? how does love and honest emotion "START going away"?



gridney/ YidwithLid again is BLAMING Target #1 for HIS immature emotional state and the fact that he never had any feelings towards her. The whole relationship was a set up from day one on his part. A set up towards a woman he'd known almost 30 YEARS! and her friends! Shameless)



This is the SAME guy who 2 years ago told Target #1 he "couldn't feel" emotion and then that he "couldn't control. REMEMBER? )



FOT1: so you did love her in a romantic sense at one point?



gridney/ YidwithLid: yes



FOT1: did you ever tell hr?



gridney/ YidwithLid: no



gridney/ YidwithLid: not exactly



FOT1: well gridney/ YidwithLid you either tell someone you love them or you don't

(FOT1 knows that gridney/ YidwithLid has now been LOVE BOMBING Target #2 - telling her he loved her and she was his soulmate; a women he'd never even MET IN PERSON... but doesn't reveal that to gridney/ YidwithLid yet)



gridney/ YidwithLid: no I didnt

(of course he didn't - gridney/ YidwithLid dangled it to keep Target #1 in his web of deception and pain so he could continue to inflict emotional torture on her and use her online for sexual gratification and kicks)



gridney/ YidwithLid: but eveytime we tried to stop we couldnt

(wait! gridney/ YidwithLid initiated the relationships with BOTH targets! Didn't Target #1 try a number of times to stop it & leave and gridney/ YidwithLid kept reeling her back in?? And from confirmed unaltered chat histories we read - gridney/ YidwithLid initiated 99% of the cybersex with Target #1. Cyberpath - BLAME Shifting (ie 'its not MY fault!))



gridney/ YidwithLid: but I forced myself



FOT1: you forced yourself?



FOT1: Or you found it easier because you had someone else to play with?



gridney/ YidwithLid: no because that happened almost two month before I met Target #2

(this is a complete lie - he and Target #1 had cybersex, initiated by him, just a couple weeks before this conversation - confirmed by EOPC.



gridney/ YidwithLid just ignores FOT1's brilliant comment above - which, if you read it again, was right on the money!)



FOT1: how did you meet her?



gridney/ YidwithLid: she commented on one off my articles so I sent her a thank you

(another COMPLETE lie - Target #1 introduced them, remember? gridney/ YidwithLid is practicing his 'story' and 'historical juggling' already. Target #2 said Yid BEGGED her to open up IM with him! Cyberpaths always practice their stories to edit for believability)



gridney/ YidwithLid: and she email back

(Blame- Shifting again. The truth was gridney/ YidwithLid INITIATED the relationship with Target #2 also)



FOT1: you send thank yous to everyone who comments?

(even the MEN? And we know he COLLECTS email addresses from his site)



gridney/ YidwithLid: yes



gridney/ YidwithLid: I do



gridney/ YidwithLid: read the bottom of one of my articles



gridney/ YidwithLid: it says right there



FOT 1: k



gridney/ YidwithLid: He reads and responds to all of his mail, so comment by here



FOT1: oh, yeah, of course I remember now



gridney/ YidwithLid: and then we started emailing

(WE? Who initiated? Guess!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: and iming



gridney/ YidwithLid: and one thing led to another

(gridney/ YidwithLid purposely seduced Target #2 also, he means. gridney/ YidwithLid is one horny guy with a keyboard, huh? Does he just initiate cybersex with every female he knows online who isn't a family member? Looks like it! Misogynist.)



FOT1: gridney/ YidwithLid you do know Target #1 loved you, and that for her love is something she tries to avoid because it has only ever brought her pain



gridney/ YidwithLid: until we had a big fight yesterday

(gridney/ YidwithLid pays NO attention to what FOT1 just said, too busy thinking of plausible lies. Additionally - There was no fight with Target #2 according to her; other than Yidwithlid not wanting to answer a direct question and getting offline fast!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I had a big fight with her yesterday because.. she didnt want me to be friends with target #1

(another complete lie - it was gridney/ YidwithLid who didn't want Targets #1 and #2 to be friends. Classic Cyberpath move - reverse or split the truth and keep targets apart at all costs!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: and the rest as we say is history

(glibness .... inappropriate considering the seriousness of what's happening)



FOT1: how does she know Target #1?



gridney/ YidwithLid: they met on a newsgroup (another LIE)



FOT1: oh, right



gridney/ YidwithLid: thats how she got to read mystuff

(No, another lie...Target #1 SENT gridney/ YidwithLid's writing to Target #2 & asked her help in getting it circulated... remember? He owes Target #1 some big thanks but no way will he thank her. More gridney/ YidwithLid twisting reality)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I asked target #1 if I could call her and she is ignoring me



FOT1: well from the sound of it that's not surprising



gridney/ YidwithLid: she told target #2 that I said bad things about her which is not true

(yet ANOTHER lie for sympathy - sounds kind of high school/immature too.)



And just guess what has gridney/ YidwithLid been saying about Target #1 and FOT1 to Target #2)



FOT1: why would she lie



gridney/ YidwithLid: I never said anything cause I knew it would hurt her

(no gridney/ YidwithLid, you never said anything because you liked lying and dishonesty and toying with your targets.



Again - notice gridney/ YidwithLid TOTALLY avoids FOT1's comment that her friend isn't the type to lie or a liar. gridney/ YidwithLid just keeps pushing his story)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I swear

(anyone who has to SWEAR they are telling the truth ...... is hiding something)



FOT1: Target #1 doesn't lie

(Targets #1 and #2 have no motive to lie! Only gridney/ YidwithLid does...



REMEMBER that when dealing with Online Predators - remember WHO has reason to be lying.... you or them?)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I never discussed Target #2 with Target #1

(of COURSE he didn't - he was playing a game called Triangulation)



gridney/ YidwithLid: On my life

(what life would that be?)



gridney/ YidwithLid: gtg



~~~~~

gridney/ YidwithLid: Target #1 wouldnt pic up her mobile

(gridney/ YidwithLid was frantically trying to call Target #1 now.... to try to anchor more lies)



FOT1: well I did say to leave a message. She's a busy woman



gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont know



FOT1: you know how it is... kids and all, also she's ill, remember



gridney/ YidwithLid: Her vioce mail didnt pic up



gridney/ YidwithLid: I dont htink



gridney/ YidwithLid: I ddint hear a beeb



gridney/ YidwithLid: but Italked anyway



FOT1: what'd you say?



gridney/ YidwithLid: I said that I didnt want to loseher from my life that she was too important and could we talk

(gridney/ YidwithLid later left that same 'canned comment' on Target #1 and Target #2s home numbers - showing it was planned and calculated.)



BTW readers, if Target#1 was so "important" wouldn't gridney/ YidwithLid have shown more consideration or introduced Target #1 to his family as she requested in the first place or had lunch with her right away - 2 years back? What was truly important was that he SHUT UP EVERYONE as FAST as he could & told his wife & family a spun story to protect himself.



No! Yidwithlid decided to use & abuse Target #1 from day one. He looked her up for sex. Period.



Keeping her a secret and using her woundedness and old feelings for him to lead her into a sick relationship that he could twist her anyway he wanted and keep her online as an object and out of his real life. User.)

What was actually important was that his LIES be considered TRUTH before either target found out more.





FOT1: gridney/ YidwithLid she's been awake for 30 hours



FOT1: she's distraught



FOT1: gridney/ YidwithLid



FOT1: you've utterly destroyed any trust she had in you



FOT1: you've made her feel used



gridney/ YidwithLid: I know (no you don't you couldn't POSSIBLY!)



gridney/ YidwithLid: but I wasnt



gridney/ YidwithLid: I swear

(again with the 'I swear' - protesting their innocence - like Brad Dorsky, Nathan E.B. Thomas, Ed Hicks, Doug Beckstead and so on... Deny Deny Deny.)



FOT1: you weren't what?



FOT1: using her?



gridney/ YidwithLid: we were supposed to meet next week



FOT1: so?



gridney/ YidwithLid: I asked her to keep the lucnh



gridney/ YidwithLid: so w can talk



FOT1: you know, if I were her I wouldn't want to talk to you



FOT1: I would feel very used and betrayed



gridney/ YidwithLid: I know

(no gridney/ YidwithLid you wouldn't know - he's too busy trying to dig himself out of the pit he's gotten himself in. Both targets were deeply traumatized... Target #2 was enraged, as you will find out )



FOT1: you were using her, weren't you



gridney/ YidwithLid: no



gridney/ YidwithLid: I wasnt (yes you were. from the get-go!)



FOT1: well; what else do you call cybersex with her, and then another woman, with no intention of anything else?



gridney/ YidwithLid: I told you how it happedn and they were sepreated by time

(again trying to sell his LIE about times & dates. gridney/ YidwithLid is going to stick to this story now that he's decided on it. Just like Charles "Ed" Hicks, Doug Beckstead and Dan Jacoby)



gridney/ YidwithLid: and there was an intention

(gridney/ Yidwithlid - you are supposedly in sales so you should know better! you never give a "buy" indication with no intention of really BUYING. You NEVER seduce & use a vulnerable woman and then just leave her hanging... especially one you've known all those years!! This was a PERSON not a THING!)



FOT1: what did you intend?

(reminder: she's asking about HER FRIEND Target #1 - and now check gridney/ YidwithLid's SELFISH predatory response:)



gridney/ YidwithLid: I had set up a trip to see Target #2

( FOT1 meant HER FRIEND - what was gridney/ YidwithLid's intention with her friend -Target #1! He's still thinking he can get some free sex out of this somewhere!



The person gridney/ YidwithLid had been toying with for 2 years?... stupid gridney/ YidwithLid just jammed his foot into his mouth even further! - FOT1 now loses her cool....)



FOT1: I meant MY friend,Target #1! Not your newest girlfriend, Target #2.



You've been lying and toying with Target #1 for 2 years with no intention other than to twist her into knots and using her! So, what do you expect after what you've done to my best friend? Lied about ME, too. I tell you what, gridney/ YidwithLid, you best be sh*tting yourself. You ********. And you call yourself a spiritual man. I think not. All you think about is your **** and I wish you everything you deserve. What a filthy lying s**tbag you are.



After this FOT1 revealed to Target #1 that gridney/ YidwithLid had tried a few times to initiate cybersex with her but she blew him right off. He did the same to Target #1s friend Kristen. gridney/ YidwithLid when confronted said he was 'only kidding.' (Cyberpaths ALWAYS minimize or justify their behavior)



FOT1 knew for 2 years about Target#1 and gridney/ YidwithLid's 'relationship.' She had NO INTENTION of being gridney/ YidwithLid's next victim and didn't want to hurt Target #1 in case she was WRONG about him. Online Predators make everyone second guess themselves!



Target #2 told us that gridney/ YidwithLid had reported to her that FOT1 & Target #1 liked to "taunt him sexually" online and make him "feel bad." So of course, Target #2 (who was in love with gridney/ YidwithLid) - hated FOT1 & Target #1 for doing this to him. Exactly what gridney/ YidwithLid the predator wanted.



Notice how gridney/ YidwithLid sowed hatred amongst these women to attempt make sure they didn't compare his stories & to protect HIMSELF! (Target #2's statement to us bears out that gridney/ YidwithLid told her untrue stories about the other two women)



By the way - FOT1? Is young enough to be gridney/ YidwithLid's daughter! Cyberpaths who are sexual addicts have NO BOUNDARIES and no shame.



~~~~

Target #1: "I finally told gridney/ YidwithLid in August 2003 - 'lunch or let's just stop chatting - this is getting ridiculous' and I told him 'things have to change.' I gave him a chance to get out, figuring he'd lost interest.



But no.... he got back to me the next day with a date and time to 'have lunch' - 3 weeks from my ultimatum.



It didn't go well. gridney/ YidwithLid was stand-offish and didn't look me in the eye. The conversation revolved around pleasantries with ZERO acknowledgement of what had passed between us. He positioned us at a table where he could sit FAR away from me.



Besides the remoteness and stinging reserve, the most disturbing thing he did was upon leaving. There was a short flight of stairs to negotiate. I gingerly walked by the wall so I could steady myself. Due to my disability, my legs aren't always reliable. Rather than stepping in and helping me, like most normal people do, he stood at the bottom of the stairs and backed away like I was a monster. He should have just called me ugly, pathetic or something - it would have been more honest. I cried in the car on the way home.

The question that gave us the best picture of the psychopath in action was “How did he act when you were ill?” Illness implies vulnerability which is a perfect time for a psychopath to take advantage of someone.



Since psychopaths get bored easily and being ill is fairly boring, it is easy to anticipate that a psychopath would be “challenged” to be consistently helpful in illness. Couple the sense of being bored with a lack of empathy, compassion, and very low cooperation and you can pretty much guarantee she’ll have to take care of herself if she gets sick.



He either got bored with helping or he only helped when others were around watching. The overwhelming majority of the psychopaths didn’t give care when someone needed it. In fact many of the psychopaths ignored serious and life threatening illnesses in their mates. Here are some of the typical answers:



“He doesn’t show empathy or any kind of support.”



“He didn’t offer to help me get better. He would call and feign sympathy. But all he really wanted to find out was if I was well enough to come over so he could use me for sex.”



Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS

And true to Dunetz/ YidwithLid's programming of me and my belief I could 'help' him, I became part of the pattern again, even after this lunch that demonstrated his true and malignant character.



"Tension? Couldn't control? Making him crazy? dunetz/ YidwithLid could 'handle it now"? What does this sound like to you, readers? - Fighter



This gets more twisted - come back for more this month!

There are two other significant features of emotional rape, the first being sudden reversal. The second characteristic is that victims feel extremely "used" and fear they will never be able to love or trust again. - Dr. Mike Fox

yidwithlid